4DWN Dallas Is Doing it Right

The skateparks of our futures are gearing up to be a lot different than the ones we’ve been used to. I mean, not all of ’em, I’m sure you’ll still be able to find an unhealthy share of tennis court parks that look like they were built by a local sporting goods store, or insanely expensive city built parks on the outskirts with full pipes and 15 stair hand rails, but we’re also going to discover a healthy amount of new scaled-down skateparks, plaza parks, DIYs backed by cities, skate gardens, as well more innovation and community incorporation being used, basically a collective reimagining of what skateparks can be. 

Lucky for me, one of those reimagined concepts has been evolving just up the interstate from where I live. What started in 2008 as a private vert ramp in Dallas, Texas for World Industries Alum Mike Crum, quickly grew into a private vert ramp plus private skatepark, then public vert ramp and public skatepark open free for the community, before relocating to southeast Dallas in 2015 and becoming 4DWN, a nonprofit organization co-founded by Crum and Rob Cahill. Since then 4DWN has grown into a community center and resilience hub, housing an indoor and outdoor skatepark, vert ramp and mini-ramp, plus offering community resource programs like a Food Rescue and Distribution program, which is one element of 4DWN’s on-site, closed loop food system that also includes an outdoor and indoor garden, a skater built industrial-size cold storage unit, and an on-site composting system that when described sounds like something you’d read about in a science fiction novel. Along with their outreach programs, 4DWN also hosts community art exhibitions, stand-up comedy nights, skate lessons, self-defense courses, yoga classes and grill outs. Attracting more than just skateboarding and skateboarders, Crum and Cahill’s community first approach has captured the curiosity of many like-minded individuals, creatives, academics, artists and activists, making 4DWN not just a skatepark, but also a great antidote against the perpetual antagonism and doom algorithms that flood our feeds these days.

Having the good fortune of living nearby, I took myself a little weekend road trip for this edition of the Harbour County, visiting 4DWN for a Tuesdaze Urban curated photography exhibition and a Spread the Love Sunday food distribution. While there, I got a tour of the facilities and caught up with 4DWN co-founders Mike Crum and Rob Cahill, who were busy preparing the facilities for 4DWN’s 10^th Anniversary party, which included an entire rebuild of the vert and mini ramps.

Written and interviews by Justin Hill

Breck Harrison - Backside Air

MIKE CRUM

Was becoming a nonprofit always in the plans for 4DWN, or was it something 4DWN evolved into?

No, I mean when I moved back to Dallas in 2008 from California, there were no vert ramps here, so I wanted to get a warehouse, a little bit of land and build a private vert ramp type of deal. After a while though we had to start thinking about how we were going to pay the bills. That’s when we started doing art shows, events and some different stuff. Around then too, we started being open more to the public, and noticed more people needed the space just as much as us, so what kind of started as this selfish type thing became something we wanted to share with everyone, especially when we saw how much the community was behind it, with everyone eager to help out, everyone joining in. It was cool to see. Then we thought, hey, we’re doing a lot of events, giving out skateboards, trying to help the local kids out – we should make this place into a nonprofit. It just made more sense. And in 2015, we moved to our new and current location, where 4DWN has sort of been morphing organically into what it is now. Rob has been a great visionary with everything – you know starting to grow and garden stuff, starting to beautify the place and all that. It was during the pandemic that we started jumping into food insecurity and trying to help out the community that way by building grow boxes here, where people could come and learn to grow their own food. The grow boxes then evolved into building a community cold storage unit out of a 40-foot shipping container. When you get donated food, you have to do your distribution right away, unless you have somewhere safe to store it. So, with our cold storage unit it has become a place not only for us to store food, but also a storage unit for other nonprofits to use as well.

You and Rob have said there is a lot of skateboard mentality being used at 4DWN. What do y’all mean by that?

When skateboarders say they are going to do something, they do it, you know? It’s tapping into that mentality that envisions things that can be done despite being told they can’t be done, which I believe has attracted a lot of like-minded people who are working with us now, like Stefani. Have you met Stefani? Stefani’s amazing – she came here a few times to volunteer, grab some grub and get skate lessons for her daughters. She’s a single mom, working normal hours at a normal job, but even then, you know, basic grocery and food costs far surpass the wages people make. Now Stefani also works for us and gets paid to run our food distribution on Sunday’s. We really strive to be full circle on everything we do at 4DWN, from composting and gardening to the families, community and kids.

Skate Lessons at  4DWN

STEFANI ZHIKOVA

What is your role at 4DWN?

I’m the Food Rescue coordinator at 4DWN, so I run our Food Rescue and Distribution program. I’ve been the present coordinator for about one year now.

Stefani working the Food Rescue/Distribution at 4DWN

When did you start coming to 4DWN?

I first came here about two and a half years ago to volunteer, and for skate lessons for my two daughters. I’m originally from Bulgaria, moved to the US thirteen years ago, and I’ve been in Texas for about eight years, but since then I’ve been really eager to find a community that felt right for me, you know, like the type of community outside of your family, somewhere where you can just be yourself, make friends, talk freely, support and help each other and just be free and comfortable. And when I first came to 4DWN, I really enjoyed the vibe, it reminded me of experiences I had as a child when all my neighbors, aunties, family and family friends would gather, eat and just enjoy being in each other’s company. You know giving a plate of food to somebody, or a box of food, or food in general to anyone is like giving them flowers, that’s love to me – it warms peoples’ souls. So I try to feed everybody. As long as you’re not bringing in drugs or aren’t being harmful to others, then you’re welcome to come and get some food here.

When are 4DWN’s distribution days?

I wish we could do it seven days a week, but we currently have our distribution day on Sunday mornings, and a Grill and Chill on Wednesday nights, where we utilize some of our food still in the cold storage from our Sunday food distribution. We also don’t require any ID or paystub proof, because I know some federally funded organizations can be well intended but also conditional, and 4DWN is not, which is a great thing, because many of our food recipients come from all over the metro area. I’m sure you’ve noticed that there is a large, unhoused population around this area, which we’re able to help, but we also have people coming from Irving and Fort Worth and other areas. People from all different places and backgrounds, and that’s what it’s about, just being open to whomever needs it.

Do you skateboard?

Oh hell no! I’ve tried getting on a board, but that shit scares me. My daughters skateboard though. They’re another reason we started coming to 4DWN. I wanted my girls to be more empowered, more able to stand up for themselves, and I think that aligns a lot with skateboarding. Skaters are very resilient and rebellious and naturally confident, and I wanted my girls to have the opportunity to share in that.

Kareem Campbell lending a hand at a 4DWN Spread the love Sunday Food Rescue

ROB CAHILL

What is Kareem Campbell’s involvement with 4DWN? Did you, Crum and Kareem know each other before 4DWN?

Reem is one of 4DWN’s board members. He’s been around since the beginning of 4DWN though, always showing up at events and helping out. We couldn’t do it without ’em. Crum and Reem have known each other ever since they were teenagers, and of course, they also rode for World Industries together in the mid-90s. Crum joined me in 2008 for a previous business venture, which Reem also joined. The business did well but other parties couldn’t get along, so the business eventually went away despite the success we had. Reem and I have stayed very close friends since then. Eventually Crum and I reconnected in 2015 when 4DWN was born.

I asked Mike this as well, but you guys have said that 4DWN utilizes skateboard mentality in everything 4DWN does. What do you mean?

Time and time again, skaters, artists and all the other creatives that we hang out with in our extended skateboard tribe are the ones that are creating culture and moving culture forward. They’re the ones on the forefront, the ones on the frontier of discovery. And time and time again, the problems, different challenges and complexities we face as communities and societies hide behind these weird arbitrary lines we’ve drawn. Arbitrary lines that humans are sort of obsessed with, but why? As skaters, musicians, artists and creatives – we’ve always transcended those lines. Skateboarding, especially now, has no boundaries, has no limitations, and skateboarders inherently take risks, so we’re the perfect ones to carry forward and have our solutions be found, because if there are solutions to be found in the modern-day cultural void, they’re likely to be found in our subcultures.

Mike Crum, Michael Sieben and Kareem Campbell 

There’s a successful homeless prevention program in Austin called Community First! Village, they have nothing to do with skateboarding, but their founder said something not long ago that reminded me a lot of skateboarders. He was discussing their program, and I’m paraphrasing here, but he said something along the lines of – government is typically too risk-averse and lacking the innovation to solve societies hardest challenges, so we decided to take on the risk to prove something innovative.

Absolutely! That’s why we don’t take a fucking dime from the government. Not a dime to report to them, so we don’t have to make sense to them to get our shit done, there’s freedom in that, and we need that freedom so that we can take risks, and as skaters, we inherently take risks, we take action, we innovate in any way. And whether you’re a skateboarder, entrepreneur, artist, scientist, activist or whatever, you have to have the freedom to take risks, but if you’re getting money from different groups or certain people, then you’re bound by their rules and their limitations. Well, that’s exactly what we’re not here to do. Skaters don’t even understand limitations. Luckily enough, we have clever ways of getting money on our own, because through skateboarding we know some amazing people and have great friends that can help.

Not even government grants? How is 4DWN funded?

Fundraising for us means private donors, partnerships with brands that support the mission and being invited to apply for grants, like the Dickies VF Foundation grant, which is game changing for us. We’re also pioneering triple bottom line business partnerships, which are a more mature thoughtful entrepreneurship model that considers three variables rather than the one and only almighty dollar. Currently we’re partnering with the largest nursery in Texas working on a solution to air and water pollution stemming from food and organic waste using bacterial photosynthesis to create a regenerative soil enhancer, which is some ancient technology. So, we’re turning what would be pollution into a solution that restores life back to dirt in the way of regenerating soil, all while reducing irrigation costs. It’s called Humisoil.

4DWN 100 board and helmet give-a-way

I could see something like 4DWN working in other locales, urban or rural areas, specifically Appalachia or north Philly. Do you think 4DWN could serve as a blueprint for other communities, skateparks and skate shops?

Something we are doing is centering this thing around action sports mentality, which if you’re living in the mountains that might not be skateboarding, it might be some other group of folks, like mountain climbers, skiers, snowboarders or bikers, or the coasts have surfers, hell even rodeo guys, but I think to make 4DWN more replicable, you need some sort of place to congregate so that a culture and community can take hold, and I think you need a cultural base, and for us, that’s skateboarding, or action sports, which if you treat as your nucleus, it gives you a cultural and community grounding to build around. And notice, you’ve visited a couple times, 4DWN isn’t exclusive to skateboarding, some of the people over there are professional dancers and actors, there’s comedians and chefs at this art show tonight, there’s folks of all sorts at our Sunday food distributions, all these people from other walks of life that have the same qualities, values and attitudes that aren’t exclusive to skateboarding, but if you use skateboarding as your nucleus to build around, right? You’ll have people coming out of the woodworks that it appeals to, because there’s a certain percentage of people that are going to be deplorable no matter what, but there’s also a percentage of people that are going to want to be cool and admirable no matter what. Just like birds, bees and butterflies that come into a pollinator garden, you have to provide an environment that they’re naturally attracted to and that the wrong species are naturally repelled from.

Is scalability and expanding 4DWN to other communities, states and cities something you guys are thinking about?

Sharing our model and expanding 4DWN to other communities is high on our priority list for 2025 – many folks are asking if scalability is something we really want to see happen. Much of the approach is about setting up environments so that people can naturally adapt, have fun, play around, be helpful, and find solutions while maintaining cultures of encouragement, cooperation, fun, respect, love, but still be honest and real as fuck. When you go to a skatepark, you see people encouraging each other, so there’s a culture of encouragement already there, right? So, we’re just trying to hack into that way of being and extend it to other areas of life where there are obviously problems and challenges, especially in areas with high disparity. It’s not like we have to go looking for problems, I don’t have to be on the internet or watching TV, I can just look outside right now.

Ray Barbee and Chuck Treece at the 10 year anniversary

You’ve talked about 4DWN providing equal access and opportunity to people who are living on the wrong side of disparity. How does that tie into 4DWN’s community outreach and mutual aid programs?

4DWN isn’t just access to healthy food. It’s access and opportunity to be in an environment filled with community, cooperation, recreation, encouragement, solutions, art programs, free internet, clean water and other resources. If you live at all in reality and aren’t on some Kool Aid shit that suggests some racial hierarchy or some other bullshit, you’ll know that talent and potential amongst people are spread evenly. I mean I think it’s pretty evident to any of us who’ve traveled around or lived in different places, that talent and potential are spread pretty evenly amongst folks – black, brown, white, women, men or whoever, it doesn’t matter. But access and opportunity are most definitely NOT spread evenly – that’s the disparity and the bridge we’re trying to gap with our outreach.

In y'all's overview, one of the ways 4DWN is described is as a "Resilience Hub”. How do you define a resilience hub, and how do you see 4DWN acting as one?

Think about it this way – if you drop a cup, and it doesn’t break, it’s resilient, right? It withstood some trauma and still didn’t break. You drop something fragile, and it breaks, right? Now think about this, what if when I drop the cup it gets stronger every time I pick it back up. It’s better where broken and stronger after stress, well that’s anti-fragility. So, we’ve done many things at 4DWN themed after anti-fragility. And think about it, as skaters we damn near break ourselves, sometimes even actually breaking ourselves, but we keep coming back and coming back. So, all the things we’re doing at 4DWN are aligned with skateboarding: being strong, being tough, coming back, getting better where broken, being stronger under stress and all those things. We were already doing those things when eventually some academics and professors visited at some point and said, “Oh y’all are a resilience hub.” We were like, what the fuck is a resilience hub, you know? We just know what we’re trying to do, and that we’re trying to live and learn from it rather than conceive it. At the end of the day though, a resilience hub is an academically defined thing that has to do with the idea that there can be these places in which communities can congregate and come together to form resilience under any form of stress, whether that’s weather stress – hurricanes, floods, droughts, ice events, fires or whatever – or some sort of political strife, financial strife, food insecurities, some kind of meltdown, a pandemic, you name it. And at 4DWN we’ve been responding to those types of challenges in our environment, and by responding to those challenges we are getting stronger and better. So, we’re a resilience hub whether it is academically defined, defined by government entities or defined by how I’m explaining it now, which has to do with – if you’re going to go through the bullshit, can you get better? can you get stronger? can you get smarter? can you sharpen your skills? And as skateboarders, we’re always doing that! We try hard things just for the fun of it! We don’t run from the stress and pain of life; we go straight toward it and get better because of that. Skateboarding embodies resilience while the rest of the world runs off the pleasure principle; they try to avoid pain, avoid stress, avoid effort to maximize pleasure. It’s funny because that gives skateboarders a unique way of being pre-prepared for all the things that are going on right now and all the things that are coming down the line. We’re living in a brand-new world, so there’s nothing from previous times that can help us presume what’s going to happen next, because all the guardrails are gone, all the standards, norms and institutions that ensured some sort of paved route forward are no longer pushing us forward but rather doing the opposite.

Which is harder, learning to skateboard, or learning how to run a nonprofit?

Learning to skateboard for sure!

Really?!

Oh yeah. Skateboarding is fucking difficult, that shit will humble your ass, and like I was saying, learning how to skateboard all those years ago is what prepared us in a way to start a non-profit now. We can see the problems and challenges in our environment, and we’re ready to go straight at them and respond, but we’re also going to learn along the way, whereas other organizations seek to stay safe and avoid failure, which is the exact opposite of how you learn to skateboard. People learn to skate by taking risks, learning from their failures and improving themselves from there. Another thing that has made our non-profit efforts easier is trust in our community, trust that we’re going to be able to learn, adapt, shape-shift, grow together and become strong enough to take on any challenge. You can’t be afraid of failure. There’s no failure as long as you get up and keep trying, right?

Tim Kerr at the 4DWN 10 Year Anniversary Show

There’s been a lot of talk recently about skateboarding, in many facets, becoming mature, with some wondering if that’s going to make it harder for skateboarding to have another game changing type skater or moment, like a Gonz or the street skating upsurge of the 90's. Do you think building future skateparks or skate shops that incorporate the types of community outreach and mutual aid that 4DWN is incorporating could be the next big shift?

I think it’s going to be culturally, it’s not going to be the next individual geniuses, but I think culturally there’s going to be an emergence, because there’s a critical mass of people skateboarding these days, and in the past, we had the founding fathers, right, emerging leaders like Gonz, Natas, Matt Hensly, Ray Barbee, Tony Hawk, etc. All these geniuses changed the whole game when they came along, but now the game is bigger and one individual person isn’t going to change it. As a culture though, we could change the fucking world. We’re outsiders, we don’t give a fuck what the rules of this world are, we live by our own fucking rules, and while we’re being told what can’t be done, we’re just going to go ahead and do it anyway, despite all the bullshit and arguing from modern society. That’s the premise and vibe we’re trying to live by at 4DWN.

Have y’all ever thought about collaborating with Muska?! Ship in some Muska farm produce for one of 4DWN’s Sunday food distributions? Or y’all could sell Muska grown and baked Rhubarb pie in the Cortez shop wheel case!!??

Haha, those are some good ideas. Muska is of course Reem’s good buddy, so we’ve actually toyed with possibilities of collaborating with him, but those two guys can be elusive. Maybe one day.

You said we’re living in a very unpredictable new world. I also think we’re living in a world kind of dictated by algorithms that keep us locked in despair and fucking outrage. Do you think seeking joy, like through skateboarding or volunteering, could be an act of resistance in an era of echo chamber algorithms?

A lot of times we need to find things indirectly, like if you go looking for happiness you’re not going to find it, but let’s say you go and learn how to skateboard, which starts out with no real meaning or purpose, but it ends up making you feel really fucking happy, maybe the happiest you’ve ever been in your fucking life, which is part of the weird riddle of being a human being, but if you don’t have things like skateboarding that you can get lost in, you never get to discover that little nugget of humanity. We slow down when we are skating and being creative. The act of skateboarding is meditation, and whether it’s climbing a mountain or some rodeo guy figuring some shit out about a horse, it’s all the same. Humans are at their best when they’re able to get lost in their creativity and their wonderings – that’s the better part of our humanity. Skateboarding has also always been a subculture that acts as the antithesis to the prevalent culture, and at a time when the prevalent culture is absolutely indecent, unsustainable and bizarrely upside down, to be rebellious is to be virtuous, kind and happy. So being punk is being kind. Revolting against the prevalent culture is by being decent and openly joyful. How wild is that? I think 4DWN offers a skateboarder’s type of joy to everyone. If you come to one of our food distributions on Sunday, you’ll notice there’s a whole bunch of people there that have never set foot on a skateboard, they’re not skateboarders, but they’re still getting that jumping over a fence with your skateboard and hopping down to the other side feeling. It’s human nature to look for experiences, the experience of life that doesn’t boil down to measurable things – that’s the joy of life. Why do you make art? Just for the sake of making it. Why do you skate? Just for the sake of skating. Because you just feel like doing those things. It’s an expression of freedom, which isn’t exclusive, and that makes me feel a lot better, because it’s an easy world to feel alone in, and the experiment here is the therapy for that, because we’re not isolated, we’re not all by ourselves, we’re weirdos but there’s a lot of other weirdos here too, and it’s made me realize there’s a decent percentage of human beings that feel the same way we feel, they just don’t ride this silly, wooden toy like we do, but we’re certainly not alone, which is very important right now.

Now check out this rad profile filmed by Justin Hill and edited by Jurgen Koch